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 Dr Pulley weights, Size??

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Mighty Mouse
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PostSubject: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:17 am

So sorry to ask this question, but searching the forum gives me plenty about what weight to use, but what about the size? I get 2 different sizes available 28 x 20 and 25 x 22 both in 28gm. The Dr Pulley web page does not actually make it clear for me what is the correct size to use?
Can anybody help a fellow Swinger please?

PS. Do you think it necessary to replace the variator pins at around 90 000kms as well?
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:21 am

Here you go bud, standard fitment list & alternative wieghts available .... http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.htm .... which shows,
Silverwing 600, 28x20, 28gr.
alteranatives 23-24-25-26-27-28gr.

Sliding pieces part number .. SP2820-W
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Mighty Mouse
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:26 am

Thanks for this - I would hate to order the wrong size!
thumbs up
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:53 am

No prob's, I was on that page Wednesday looking at alternative weights myself, so was easy to find in my history.

Remember to clean the filter in the outer cover while you have it off
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Mighty Mouse
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:35 am

New belt, sliders in and filter cleaned. Now my bike is a different animal. Smoother, hopefully more efficient, tad more power (or so it seems) and a much happier rider! Now to see how long this all lasts. I will be going got the 200 000km mark on this bike - and get there in just 4 more years!
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:52 am

The Bern wrote:
Here you go bud, standard fitment list & alternative wieghts available .... http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.htm .... which shows,
Silverwing 600, 28x20, 28gr.
alteranatives 23-24-25-26-27-28gr.

Sliding pieces part number .. SP2820-W

Thanks from me also, at nearing 15 K and replaced the belt at 11K I would like to try the Dr.'s style, not one to mix with that range of weights I'll probably stick with the 28's.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:21 am

There is nothing "wrong" with 28's but you might want to just go with 26's'. Twenty-eights will certainly smooth initial accelleration and give a little more pep and lower cruising RPMs, but 26's will give all of the above plus better midrange acceleration.

I ran 28's for years, and was quite comfortable with them. Now I switched to 26 gm sliders and am very happy with the change. If, IF, there is any change in fuel economy (vs 28gm sliders or rollers) it's not noticeable.

Fuel economy wise, it's all a matter of how aggressive one rides.

Regarding those Dr Pulley 25x20 sliders MM mentioned, they are for a Kymco Xciting 400.

Tim
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:33 pm

I put 26's in my 08 SWing for no better reason than suggestions on this site. Don't know any difference from these to a different weight but am happy with mileage, acceleration and highway performance.
Just my 2 cents.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:01 pm

I went with Dr Pulley 26's but did not notice much difference from the original rollers. I finally settled with 24 grams sliders and am very happy with them. I actually see a drop of about 500 RPM at 60-65 mph.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:46 am

FWIW I installed 26 g sliders just after i got the scoot' and then bought a set of 24 g which I found to be too light (no significant difference in acceleration but a 100 to 150 rpm increase at cruising speeds vs. the 26 g)

Settled in on four 24 g and four 26 g, staggered of course, an effective 25 g...
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:14 pm

cliffyk wrote:
FWIW I installed 26 g sliders just after i got the scoot' and then bought a set of 24 g which I found to be too light (no significant difference in acceleration but a 100 to 150 rpm increase at cruising speeds vs. the 26 g)

Settled in on four 24 g and four 26 g, staggered of course, an effective 25 g...

I have wondered about mixing weights. I would think that the heavier weights would be engaging before the lighter ones causing undue strain on the heavier weights. Four sliders carry the load of eight. Just my thoughts.
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:07 pm

Easyrider wrote:
cliffyk wrote:
FWIW I installed 26 g sliders just after i got the scoot' and then bought a set of 24 g which I found to be too light (no significant difference in acceleration but a 100 to 150 rpm increase at cruising speeds vs. the 26 g)

Settled in on four 24 g and four 26 g, staggered of course, an effective 25 g...

I have wondered about mixing weights. I would think that the heavier weights would be engaging before the lighter ones causing undue strain on the heavier weights. Four sliders carry the load of eight. Just my thoughts.

The centrifugal force of the sliders act against the inflexible ramp plate and equally inflexible movable drive pulley face. I.e. their individual force is combined.

I suppose if it were possible to fit a mixed set in which the Cf of one size were sufficient to flex the plate or pulley there could be an issue--however given the size restrictions they would have to be made of depleted uranium or something equally dense...
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docjones
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:24 pm

So after reading the above post I'm going to assume the heavier the slider/roller the lower the RPMs are at higher speeds and/or all speeds. This thing is so much faster than my 08 Burgman 400 the only thing I would like to see is even lower RPMs. I got this Swing to do many miles a day on the interstates.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:51 pm

docjones wrote:
So after reading the above post I'm going to assume the heavier the slider/roller the lower the RPMs are at  higher speeds and/or all speeds. This thing is so much faster than my 08 Burgman 400 the only thing  I would like to see is even lower RPMs. I got this Swing to do many miles a day on the interstates.

Actually, if it isn't already mentioned in an above post, switching from OEM (28 gm) roller weights to Dr Pulley sliding weights (28 or 26gm) have been shown to reduce crusing RPMs by 400-500 rpm while improving general performance and acceleration.

Congratulations on your new Silverwing, Doc.

Tim
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:00 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
docjones wrote:
So after reading the above post I'm going to assume the heavier the slider/roller the lower the RPMs are at  higher speeds and/or all speeds. This thing is so much faster than my 08 Burgman 400 the only thing  I would like to see is even lower RPMs. I got this Swing to do many miles a day on the interstates.

Actually, if it isn't already mentioned in an above post, switching from OEM (28 gm) roller weights to Dr Pulley sliding weights (28 or 26gm) have been shown to reduce crusing RPMs by 400-500 rpm while improving general performance and acceleration.

Congratulations on your new Silverwing, Doc.


This^

The unique shape of the DRP sliders provides both improved acceleration and reduced engine rpms at cruising speeds--i.e. they are a win-win and well worth the cost. Using sliders or rollers heavier than 28 g will make for sluggish acceleration both "off-the-line", and when you might need it at cruising speeds (passing/hills/etc.).

FWIW most that have gone to >28 g seem to have gone back...
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:09 pm

Go with 26, 25 or 24. 0-30 not much difference from OEM rollers. Difference is in acceleration after that point and lower RPM's at highway speeds.

I have 26G and like them. Average 55 MPG 5 better than stock rollers.
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arskal
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:05 pm

I have plans to buy Dr Pulley sliders. I dont need better acceleration but better fuel consumption.
Dr.Pulley recommends that you choose the weight around 10-15% below the weight of original.
Original weight is 28x20/28g and Dr Pulley recommend 25,2 or even 24g. Most SWing owners has been installed 26g sliders and are satisfied with result. I think to buy 27g sliders. Lets see what kind of result I get with these.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:12 pm

While switching from 28gm roller weights to Dr Pulley 28gm sliding weights will be an improvement, please don't waste your, hard earned, money on 27gm sliding weights. Just go with 26gm, or even 24gm if you are more adventurous.

Tim
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arskal
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:25 pm

Many people say that fuel consumption has not increased significantly or noticeably. However, it is possible that consumption will rise with 26g sliders.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:52 pm

If, IF, you are concerned that much about fuel economy then stay with the 28gm weights, but change to Dr Pulley sliding weights for the benefits they bring. Or you could increase the weights to 30gm (or higher) which will decrease cruising RPMs. But you'll need to come to terms with lackluster performance if you increase the weights.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:42 pm

I still rec. 26g sliders or less. Sliders work differently than rollers. They can tighten the belt farther and give an increased pulley diameter thus lowering engine RMPs

Depends where you ride all highway or more city driving. Sliders last longer less maintenance.
Better MPG in my opinion. Better acceleration.

I had a 5MPG increase with 26G sliders. Ride on all kinds of roads highways, back roads and many elevation changes.

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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:14 pm

When I changed my belt and rollers to sliders, I observed that for my bike on the center stand that the belt went higher on the driven pulley while using the sliders. The speed when the belt was at the max height was 60MPH. Not knowing if there is any difference between running on the center stand or driving the bike, but I try to keep my speed at 60MPH hoping that is my most efficient speed. The belt should be at the top of the pulleys. That is my 2¢.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:06 pm

The most efficient RPMs are 5000 or under. Fuel efficiency is inversely proportional to RPMs. Think of the tach reading as an "inefficiency" meter: at 6000 rpm you are operating 60% inefficient; at 7000 rpm, 70% inefficient... YMMV
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:55 am

At 60MPH, my RPM is around 4700-4800. I think at 65MPH, my RPM is around 5000.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:27 pm

At the end of the day it takes so much energy to push along a big fat scooter through the atmosphere. Jiggering about with pulley weights ain't going to change the laws of physics.
If you want to increase mpg accelerate gently and keep your cruising speed down. Changing to lighter weights allows you to accelerate faster (so inevitably we do) which will use a little more fuel, heavier weights will reduce the option for acceleration so you will use a little less.
But if you really want good mpg above all else the sw is the wrong bike, a Burgervan 400 might be a better bet.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:42 pm

If you carefully watch Tach. and Speedometer you can see when front pulley is the maximum.
Mine is at about 58 MPH.  Lowest engine RPM after that RPMs rise as speed increases. 26G.
Don't remember the exact engine RPM.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:58 pm

All this talk about rollers and sliders now I just want to go out and buy a set, of sliders that is. Can anyone tell me where to get a set of 26-20 in the U.S.. I looked all over but no one seemed to have that size. And why are the bigger ones twice as much as the smaller ones?
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:32 pm

docjones wrote:
All this talk about rollers and sliders now I just want to go out and buy a set, of sliders that is.  Can anyone tell me where to get a set of 26-20 in the U.S..  I looked all over but no one seemed to have that size. And why are the bigger ones twice as much as the smaller ones?

Buggy Parts North West are the folks to see. The correct designation for the Dr Pulley sliding weights is "28-20" + whatever gram weight you want. The OEM weights are 28 gm and are roller weights. So ideally you'd want to get sliding weights 10-15% lighter than the OEM rollers.

28 x 20 is the measurement of the weights --both OEM and Dr Pulley. HTH

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:24 am

Thanks Tim, that makes it easier when you know what to look for. Buggy Parts North West didn't even list the 26gm sliders but I did find them here in Florida at Parts for Scooters. The price was even decent.
Thanks again.  Tom

[Admin Edit] http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-438-Dr-Pulley-28x20-Sliding-Roller-Weights
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:29 pm

I think all this changing roller/slider weights is funny. Silverwing as developed by Honda over 20 years ago is just fine---I speak from over 90,000 plus miles with 2 new SilverWings, using Honda parts. On road performance just fine.....worked for me. I live by "if bike you have is not right, try something else"

Enjoy the riding.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:43 pm

docjones wrote:
Thanks Tim, that makes it easier when you know what to look for. Buggy Parts North West didn't even list the 26gm sliders but I did find them here in Florida at Parts for Scooters. The price was even decent.
Thanks again.  Tom

[Admin Edit] http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-438-Dr-Pulley-28x20-Sliding-Roller-Weights

The site didn't list any weights less than 26g. I didn't like the 26g and went with the 24g. I believe that the sliders allow the belt to rise higher up the driven pulley there by lowering your cruising RPM by about 500. I cannot confirm that the OEM rollers will allow the belt to rise up the driven pulley as does the sliders.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:48 pm

john grinsel wrote:
I think all this changing roller/slider weights is funny.  Silverwing as developed by Honda over 20 years ago is just fine---I speak from over 90,000 plus miles with 2 new SilverWings, using Honda parts.  On road performance just fine.....worked for me.  I live by "if bike you have is not right, try something else"

Enjoy the riding.

Oh... c'mon John... you wanna take all the "fun" out out'a this experience... loosen up a bit... Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:11 pm

I think you're a lucky man John to have found a bike that perfectly fits your needs, but not all of us are so lucky. I've had a dozen or so, but in each case, there's always one or two things about each one that isn't quite perfect for me. I find the Swing hard to get on/off the centre stand (almost sorted now with a mod to the stand geometry and some 20mm longer shocks), lack of front grip in the wet (tyre choice by the dealer, will change type next time), and I'd like a bit more rush when accelerating two up (have order Dr Pulleys). My little GPX250 from the 90s meets all those criteria, but lacks storage (only enough for a wallet!) and weather protection! Smile

As for you general statement, I don't agree I'm afraid. I think is based on two assumptions, neither of which is always true:
1) That what was best xx years ago is still the best idea now, and
2) That there is another bike in existence that meets one's requirements.

Firstly, if what was best back then always remained the best, we'd still be riding horses not lovely big scooters . Or living in caves eating mammoths elephant

The second point is a bit self explanatory. For example, name another bike that has all the existing qualities of a Silverwing 600, but has some improved characteristic. In this case greater acceleration and maybe slightly reduced cruising rpm. Well, the Aprilia 850 scooter does that, but it's heavier, thirstier, and rare as hen's teeth. The recent 700/750 twins from Honda manage this and are lighter and more economical, but aren't scooters. The BMW 650 scooter are faster, but lack weather protection, luggage space, and they're a pig to service, and BMW was silly money to do it for you (£750-800 for a 12,000 belt change, and £1,500 for a 24,000 belt change any one?! affraid ). Hence people choose Dr Pulley, or a exhaust/filter/Power-Commander combo.

When a better bike exists for an individuals criteria, some one usually got it instead... you don't see many people dressing up a GSX-R1000 to look like a ZX10R, because they just got he ZX10R instead.

P.S. 400,000 miles? You must have an arse like a baboon! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:18 pm

I'd say Mr Grinsel has a valid point, I've kept my Silver Wing bog standard and have never felt it lacking in performance wherever I've ridden it over the years. The only changes I felt necessary were a Givi Airflow screen and a larger capacity top box.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:47 pm

I ride a lot and far----trouble, everything standard....maybe Honda dealer can get me on way quickly. Delays can get expensive----my Silverwings were ridden in 49 states and Canada from BC to Nova Scotia----I never walked, did have self inflicted battery trouble, but always got going. With fresh oil (WalMart) and belt changes at Honda recommended miles/with OEM Belts---the bikes were very reliable.

Note: I have purchased over 75 new bikes/scooters since 1955---recent years stick by 50,000 miles get rid of them. Record miles/km before trade 230,000 km BMW R51/3(no money), Suzuki GS500E 64,000 miles, Kawasaki Concours (bought new as spare....really never loved) 56,000 miles.

Current 2017 Honda CB300 F will go at 50,000 miles---regardless of how much I love or hate it. So far it works well----had to make double Puig Windshields work and they do provide NO BUFFETING....AND Hepco & Becker C-Bow bags and luggage rack, work well. $40 Bestem top box real good price and of course can get bigger one for under $100 ---with hole for head dog likes it, too. Of course I miss underseat storage and "dry feet thing" scooters offer---- do not miss expense of belt replacement often.

For old fart, bike is better balanced.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:42 am

As my Silver Wing is seven years old now, I can't see any advantage to start adding any performance mods as they aren't needed or necessary. Neither is changing springs at either end, sticking on an aftermarket exhaust with a big logo that won't look as good as the OE one, or adding any addition to what's already been fitted.

Because when I come to sell it or trade it in, none of this extra junk will add anything to the resale or trade in value, and taking off the kit previously used on my Burgmans will hopefully be utilised on my next maxi.


Last edited by Meldrew on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:39 am

When I trade, I tend to take off stuff I added---scooter trades I leave Givi rack and windshield on/other stuff like velcro/cruise control/foam grips, etc/mud flaps------they go in junk box. Yesterday I added rear mud flap to my CB300F---this had been front mud flap on both Suzuki Burgman 400's and SilverWings----now rear extension on CB300---even used 2 bolts from my mother's "85 Buick. Think I have gotten a lot of use from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:17 pm

Easyrider wrote:
When I changed my belt and rollers to sliders, I observed that for my bike on the center stand that the belt went higher on the driven pulley while using the sliders. The speed when the belt was at the max height was 60MPH. Not knowing if there is any difference between running on the center stand or driving the bike, but I try to keep my speed at 60MPH hoping that is my most efficient speed. The belt should be at the top of the pulleys. That is my 2¢.

The CVT's behaviour while "on the centerstand" is in no way indicative of 'it's behaviour under load; when the rotary cam action of the driven pulley's torque-multiplier becomes active and joins with the driven pulley's compression spring and the centrifugal forces within the drive pulley (variator) in a  struggle for control of the drive/driven pulley pitch diameters (I.e. current drive ratio).

It is a very dynamic mechanism, operating so differently under load that no-load observations are meaningless...
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:43 pm

However, and further to Cliff's point, it is easily observed that the black belt-"wear" mark on the variator is higher with Dr Pulley sliding weights than with OEM roller weights. That's because the shape of the sliding weights causes the variator to squeeze tighter allowing the belt to ride higher in the pulley. And given that the belt doesn't significantly stretch it will then ride lower in the Driven Pulley as well. All of which combines to alter the transmission ratio(s). My 2¢

Tim
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:52 pm

Here are some tabulated observations I recorded showing the " reverse engineered" calculated CVT ratios of my '03 Burgman 400 at various vehicle speeds when running the 19 g OEM Rollers and 18 g DRP sliders:




The top table shows calculated CVT ratios wih the OEM 19g rollers; note that at "cruising speeds" (55 to 85 mph) the CVT pretty much settled in at 0.97:1, a slight overdrive.

The lower table shows the effect of a set of 18 g DRP sliders; note that at 55 to 85 mph the CVT has settled in at a b, considerbly more "overdrive" (10-11%) than with the OEM rollers--with correspondingly lower engine speed at those vehicle speeds.

This is entirely the result of tht DRP sliders's unique shape.

Though the data represents altered performance for a Burgman 400, results comparing the S'WIng's stock rollers and 26 g sliders would be similar as the fundamental design characteristics of each scoot's CVT are quite alike.
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PostSubject: Re: Dr Pulley weights, Size??   Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:58 am

We've come a long way since Mighty Mouse's original question. I'm giving Cliffyk the last word.

Thank you all for your comments.

Tim

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