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 30-32 gram sliders

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bikehiker
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PostSubject: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:36 am


I have read here that the 28 gram sliders are better for fuel economy as well as strong starts over the standard 28g rollers. Has anyone had any real world experience with Dr. Pulley sliders higher than 28 g? I understand the 35 gram sliders are used in different set up Swing types only appropriate in Japan.

But are 30 or 32 sliders appropriate to our Swings? Some sites seem to sell them for the 400 and 600 Swings.

In traveling through towns with speed limits from 25-40, I feel the Swing revving much too high compared to other geared motorcycles I have ridden. We are able somewhat to control the high revs in a geared bike, but are subject to only higher revs in our CVTs. I think gas mileage would improve considerably as the high spinning rate on flat roads or downhills would be reduced with heavier rollers/sliders.

Also, a common complaint/observation is that, compared to other scoots, you really need to twist the throttle open to get the Silver Wing moving, even though it responds well at start once you get accustomed to it. I'm thinking the Swing has enough power to afford a few slower revs between 25-40 mph.

My previous geared bike had over 200 cc more and over 35 hp more than the Swing, but got between 58 and 73 mpg. Although I enjoy the Swing much more than that bike, I am just looking for a few more mpg and slightly slower revs, especially in the 20-45 mph speeds. I know that's asking a lot, but reading your input on this forum convinced me to buy this great bike, so now I am asking for your input on a slider decision.

I am a conservative rider looking for optimal fuel economy, but not too extreme that this slider change will adversely affect its longevity.

But the Silver Wing seems to be such a great bike as is, so I could live with its current set up and still consider it the best over all bike that I have ridden.

Thanks for any input.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:46 am

Yes, I've used 30gm Dr Pulley Sliders on my '03 for awhile. The RPMs dropped significantly giving better fuel economy but the acceleration suffered.

The poor accelleration could be because I was still using the OEM torque spring on the Driven Pulley. IIRC the JDM & EURO model 400cc Silverwings which use the heavier variator rollers also use heavier torgue springs. Both Malossi and Polini have heavier torque springs available.

Subsequently I ended up using a mix of 30gm and 28gm Dr Pulley Sliders on a ride out to the Midwest and got better fuel economy than I had on previous trips. Of course that was a lot of Interstate cruising. YMMV

Tim

PS: I may still have those 30gm sliders in shed.
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Gustafa
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:58 am

Very interesting to know about the 3rd party torque springs. I wonder if after all that wrenching, is it worth it, is the mpg that much better if you went 30g and a Malossi spring?
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:16 am

Woo boy, now we are tickling the Dark Art of CVT tuning.

Seems to me that one of the members in Florida is using a Polini torque spring along with lighter weight Dr Pulley sliders with good (performance) results. So that suggests then that aftermarket torque springs might be "beneficial" whether you switched to heavier or lighter roller (or slider) weights.

Here is a link to a CVT explainer: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?8960-Variator-roller-weights-and-contra-spring-mechanics-for-dummies!-Learn-how-it-works
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:59 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Woo boy, now we are tickling the Dark Art of CVT tuning.

Seems to me that one of the members in Florida is using a Polini torque spring along with lighter weight Dr Pulley sliders with good (performance) results. So that suggests then that aftermarket torque springs might be "beneficial" whether you switched to heavier or lighter roller (or slider) weights.

Here is a link to a CVT explainer: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?8960-Variator-roller-weights-and-contra-spring-mechanics-for-dummies!-Learn-how-it-works

Thanks to the Florida man providing this great explanation,This pictorial used to explain the operation of a CVT Transmission uses a 50 CC Bike as a pictorial example,

This will confuse the Military types viewing this to no end. Prepare to be assaulted with endless Questions, Generating some traffic on the sight.

Although this is a great example of CVT technology, It does not go far enough to prevent some of the posters getting into trouble. Since most posters have stated that they are not interested in increased performance, Maybe the volume will not be too high.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:52 pm

The silverwing is a fat old beastie and not the most economical at the best of times, but that is not what is designed for. It's more of an open road tourer at which it is very good.
I believe there is some injection map trickery taking place at slow speeds that might be responsible for the low speed acceleration issue. I'm sure someone with more brains than me will pop up to explain that.
If you want better economy and can live with the reduction in performance then the burger 400 might be a better bike.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:57 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Woo boy, now we are tickling the Dark Art of CVT tuning.

Seems to me that one of the members in Florida is using a Polini torque spring along with lighter weight Dr Pulley sliders with good (performance) results. So that suggests then that aftermarket torque springs might be "beneficial" whether you switched to heavier or lighter roller (or slider) weights.

Here is a link to a CVT explainer: http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?8960-Variator-roller-weights-and-contra-spring-mechanics-for-dummies!-Learn-how-it-works

Wow, Tim, thanks for your real world experience with 30 gm sliders.

And thanks much for the explanation link. Your contra spring info., and the link helps me to understand a little better the complexity of CVT. Now, I am pretty sure I would not go higher than 30 gm unless a different contra spring entered the mix.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:21 pm

steve_h80 wrote:
The silverwing is a fat old beastie and not the most economical at the best of times, but that is not what is designed for. It's more of an open road tourer at which it is very good.
I believe there is some injection map trickery taking place at slow speeds that might be responsible for the low speed acceleration issue. I'm sure someone with more brains than me will pop up to explain that.
If you want better economy and can live with the reduction in performance then the burger 400 might be a better bike.

Steve, you are correct to give the Swing scoot the "beastie" name; some people would disagree because it's just a scooter, and the term "scooter" somehow suggests a small-like bike. But the Swing is about 150 pounds heavier than my previous 800cc bike that got better mpg. I shouldn't wonder why. However, I was reminded of the benefit of a heavier bike this morning on the Swing while crossing Susquehanna River bridges during an incoming cold front with up to 30 mph wind gusts. I was glad to be on the Wing instead of the 400 pound BMW.

Also, today, after thinking about my initial post here, and the great info responses, I started to realize how appropriate Honda engineered this bike to give a relatively heavy 600cc the best balance between appropriate starts and highway performance. Hmm... not sure whether I would want to tweak things very much at this point. I'm not yet bored with its status quo. It's just so much fun to ride!

From what I have researched about the Burger 400, I would think it would also be fun. My only preference over 400 Burger/Majesty is a little more peace of mind in highway and wind resistant travel, while willing to sacrifice some MPGs in the process.
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:19 pm

I use 28 gram sliders now and they work OK. Acceleration is about the same as stock (natch), fuel economy is negligibly higher, but for me the vibration dropped a bunch; especially between 30-40 MPH. I had a rough spot here with the oem rollers. Gone now!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Not sure what year your scoot is but the 2008 and newer models get markedly better mileage than previous units.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:31 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
I use 28 gram sliders now and they work OK.  Acceleration is about the same  as stock (natch), fuel economy is negligibly higher, but for me the vibration dropped a bunch; especially between 30-40 MPH.  I had a rough spot here with the oem rollers.  Gone now!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Not sure what year your scoot is but the 2008 and newer models get markedly better mileage than previous units.  

Glenn, thanks for sharing your experience of 28 g in good detail. Nice to know the sliders dropped the vibration. Maybe they are sliding into the right position at the right time.

I viewed a nice 05 Swing on Craigslist and visited an 08 with a great sounding performance muffler, but was fortunate to get a low miles 2012 ABS (600 miles) with a few "break-in" scratches. Seems to be running well after not having much use. But that's one thing I hope to remedy.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: 30-32 gram sliders   Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:23 pm

 Seems to be running well after not having much use.  But that's one thing I hope to remedy.

LOL, but we know what you mean. :-)
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