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 almost .. refusal to start

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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: almost .. refusal to start   Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:40 pm

My 2005 SW with almost 22,000 kms is starting a new trick ... refusing to start as easily as is normal. My first thought was I didn't have a firm grip on the rear brake lever or maybe not a solid push on the start button. The stating has sometimes been one of refusal to start until maybe the second try. Today however it was definite refusal; but with a slight twist of the throttle while pushing the start button, she started on the 4th try. Very much out of character. I welcome any comments; but my first remedy will be some gas additives for cleaning the injectors. The battery seems good, as is the gas. It was just a surprise with the refusal to start because it has always been a good starter.

Thanks,
Mike
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:04 pm

The battery seems good <<>> but how does it test under load?
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:23 pm

On a bench test for load .... I have no idea as to "how good" .... as have not done this type of test. What I meant was it seems "good" because there is no difficulty cranking the engine over and cranking with attitude. Thanks for such a fast reply "oldwingguy".
Mike
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:39 pm

Do you have or have access to a battery charger with a digital display? If so hook it up, charge the battery to 100% , switch to the voltage display, watch the drop when you crank it over AND after cranking how long does it take to reach to 100% mark again.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:11 am

Old habits die hard, my first 'port of call' is always to check that there is a good strong spark at each plug
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:00 am

How old is battery?? 2005 with 22,000 km is not ridden much or has been ridden much Littlle WD on switches at least won't hurt anything.
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:15 am

oldwingguy wrote:
Do you have or have access to a battery charger with a digital display? If so hook it up, charge the battery to 100% , switch to the voltage display, watch the drop when you crank it over AND after cranking how long does it take to reach to 100% mark again.

No ... don't have one if those but it may be wise in adding one to my assets.

I just put some Seafoam in the gas tank and it started as one would expect.  However, the Seafoam had no time to do anything at that point and should have started the bike before the addition.  I'll go for a run now, and work it through the fuel system.


Last edited by Mike from NS on Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:17 am

The Bern wrote:
Old habits die hard, my first 'port of call' is always to check that there is a good strong spark at each plug

Agree ! I changed the plugs a couple of years ago and the ones I took out still "looked" good. Thanks for your input.
Mike
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:36 am

john grinsel wrote:
How old is battery??  2005 with 22,000 km is not ridden much or has been ridden much  Littlle WD on switches at least won't hurt anything.

The battery is about 2+  years old.  I bought the bike 4 years ago, to the day, and it had about 11,000kms on it.  In 4 years I've only added that much again.  So you are right John ... ridden little.  I bought it from the second owner who claims he didn't have time to ride it.  I have no idea how much he added to the odometer but I'm guessing, not that much.

About 2 years ago, you may recall, I had stalling problems.  Your suggestion was to give it a good ride and get it up to speed.  I did that and it helped.  However in short time the stalling and low idle continued until I replaced the battery with the present one.  It looked like that failing battery may have been the original ... 10 years old !  Just like the tires ... they had cracked sidewalls and were 10 years old.  Front and rear were replaced at that time of discovery.  That was 6466 kms ago and the rear one was replaced this past week once more.  Still some life left in the front.

So my first thoughts of the present (now and then) problem are of battery problems.  I have been ill this summer and have not been riding much to the point I was becoming concerned about the battery.  But it appears to be OK.

Going to go for a ride with attitude now and with the added Seafoam, I hope to cure the problem.  I'll also get out the WD40.  The switches probably could use some attention.  The way it stumbled to start or fail to start had me thinking I wasn't closing contacts tightly enough.  Hopefully some simple basic maintenance will fix things.

Thanks,
Mike
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micbusathens
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:08 pm

If it cranks strong and refuses to start then check the gas pressure regulator.There were some issues at the past
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:16 pm

You cant be sure of anything until you first hook up a digital volt meter to your (fully charged) battery. Then read the volts as the starter motor cranks. And again when the engine is running immediately after starting.

If the cranking volts drop below 12V the battery will not have enough charge to power the ECM AND crank no matter how strong the cranking appears.

And if the stator is not putting out 13V at idle then the battery will not be adequately be recharged.

If sure that others here will chime in with more specific battery charge facts (as opposed to opinions) if I am leading you down the wrong path.

The above  info might be especially relavent if you havent run your Silverwing in almost a year AND the battery hasn't been hook up to a trickle charger for that time.

Tim
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:18 pm

Tim+1 that's the advantage of the particular type charger I mentioned, you can charge and see the voltage and how much it drops when starting. Out of my 5 chargers it's the only one that has that ability.
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:38 am

Great info Tim.  Thanks a lot.  Don't have a digital voltmeter but will try this with my analog and see what happens.  I did put the Seafoam in yesterday and went a little faster than the road signs permit on the 100 series roads here.  When running, she sure runs smoothly.  Haven't had starting issues since but saying that isn't really fair as there have been few starts since.  Heading out now and will see how it starts.  This afternoon, I'll get to the voltmeter test, and report back.
BTW: the period of little ridding this summer was for most of July and August.  Keep the battery inside over the winter on a trickle charger.

Mike


Last edited by Mike from NS on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:02 pm

No starting issues today.  And have just started the bike with an analog voltmeter connected to the battery.  From the numbers you offered Tim, I think the battery is OK.  

When attached to the battery ..... reading about 14v
When starter button pressed ... reading drops to about 12.25v/12.5v
Bike starts and.....  reading goes to 15v right away.
Shutting off the bike ... reading drops to 14v.

So if you agree that the battery seems to be OK maybe I should clean some contacts.  And, perhaps the Seafoam has cleaned some dirty injectors. Of course, there is checking the gas pressure regulator as well, as micbusathens suggested.

Mike
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:15 pm

Sounds good on the battery thumbs up running the Sea Foam or Chevron Techron in a couple more tanks may help as well.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:42 pm

I still would have the battery load tested by battery shop----since it is impossible to bump start SilverWing or kickstart....battery ok=fine, not ok replace. Had problem with my BMW K-75 on top of mountain, enough juice to turn engine over but not enough to fire fuel injection----long downhill with bike in gear, seems enough juice developed for fuel injection to work.----my fixes are the kind that get you home or not walking.

When I replaced battery on my 2013 leftover, used OEM and bike has worked fine past 6 months or so.
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Just a follow up note.

For now the starting problem seems to have vanished in that there has been no stumble in starting. All that I've done to this point is add some sea-foam to the gas. I've only gone through 2 tanks. Yesterday I went for the longest ride of the summer: 230 kms. This had several bursts of more than 100kph. I filled the tank today (and added more sea-foam) and my mileage works out to 62mpg. I'm happy with that. Especially since before the fill up today I sat in a lot of non-moving traffic. Construction season, you know.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Mike
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: almost .. refusal to start   Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:49 am

A few months ago I had some problems with starting, on checking things I noticed the oil level had dropped, unusual for a Honda, I think it is the oil that I have been using as I do need to top up every thousand miles or so. I also noted the fuel level was low when the starting was not normal. Iam due to service it at 32000 mls (its at 30,600 now) so I will go with fully synthetic next time, currently on semi syn.
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