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phils a winger
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PostSubject: drive belt measure tool   Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:20 pm

im currently running my belt at 20,000 miles since i bought the scooter, gonna try and make it to 25000 then the new belt fitted should do until i retire in 3 1/2 years. I remember reading that there is a plastice tool to measure belt wear, does anyone know the part number or if they have one, a photo or drawing with measurements would be good. Last time I looked at the belt was about 2000 miles ago and it looked like new, by using 2 strips of metal it seemd like it was at the minimum wear but not sure. 6000 rpm is still about 70mph and running up to 85 does not seem to be any higher revs.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:26 pm

Based on 2 new SilverWings, over 90,000 miles----I do not bother to measure but just change to new OEM belt every 15,000 miles----logic=breakdowns can cost money on trips, there is danger with belt failure just when you are tying to get out of somebody's way----near 400,000 miles with rubber band drive scooters, only had one belt break underway (Helix) on exit ramp, tried to give gas=nothing but engine noise. Suzuki Burgman 400 post 2007---whole rear drive/clutch blew up at 20,000 miles....right near great Suzuki shop ---warranty covered all repairs including new belt

I carry spare belt.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:49 pm

Page 10-7 of the FSM illustrates the way to measure belt wear.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:03 am

phils a winger wrote:
I remember reading that there is a plastice tool to measure belt wear, does anyone know the part number or if they have one, a photo or drawing with measurements would be good.

Yep, that was one of my posts from years back, having changed my belt the first weekend I got the scooter, I made a perspex 'doodad' to measure the belt that was on it when I got it, the previous owner had measured it when the light came on & decided it was OK, by 18,000 miles (when I got it) it was marginal.
If he was to be believed the wear rate is disproportional after the recomended change point, my advice is to change at the warning light, it was fitted for a reason.
The pictures are on photobucket, which has had a policy change regarding sharing, I am currently trying to retrieve them to rebuild the original post.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:08 am

If you are going to the trouble of measuring the belt, why not just change it?. I can never understand why people want to measure wear on a belt. Changing at the correct mileage is not a difficult thing and the belt itself is not that expensive. As John says, being stranded at the side of then road, all for the sake of carrying out normal servicing does not make sense to me.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:02 am

Old Limey wrote:
If you are going to the trouble of measuring the belt, why not just change it?.

I did change it bud, the reason I measured it was that if it had been undersize I was going to go back to the seller to 'have a word'
NOT doing maintenance jobs at the specified intervals is very likely to turn into a false economy very quickly, hence my note on disproportional wear rate Wink
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:25 pm

The Bern wrote:
Old Limey wrote:
If you are going to the trouble of measuring the belt, why not just change it?.  

I did change it bud, the reason I measured it was that if it had been undersize I was going to go back to the seller to 'have a word'
NOT doing maintenance jobs at the specified intervals is very likely to turn into a false economy very quickly, hence my note on disproportional wear rate Wink

Hi Bern, Gaining Knowledge is beyond some's comprehension.

Happy Motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:52 pm

Knowing how much wear is on a belt is helpful how? If it is changed as recommended what need is there for measuring the wear?
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 3:08 pm

Typical Scotsman lol
Get you hand in your pocket Phil, it's not worth the risk. The belt will fail at some point and you can guarantee it won't be at just after you've got home, it will be somewhere cold, wet and dismal.
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phils a winger
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:08 pm

I'm Yorkshire born and we teach the scots on being careful, gotta make use of my AA relay somehow !
Once it starts to give higher revs i'll know its time, so far so good.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:55 pm

phils a winger wrote:
I'm Yorkshire born and we teach the scots on being careful, gotta make use of my AA relay somehow !
Once it starts to give higher revs i'll know its time, so far so good.

Hi Phil, U.S. riders regularly get 25,000 miles out of their belts with no problems, I have changed them with as much as 40,000 miles on them and still being used. If you do not have the V lamp come on do not worry about your belt. A tip off is a clicking noise coming from the belt case area, Sounds much like a loose valve tappet, If you hear this check that belt.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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phils a winger
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:06 pm

lloyd 193, I thought the v light came on depending on mileage, though mine came on at about 19k and not 16k. Bike sounds no different and revs are not increasing yet. NO FUNNY NOISES EITHER. Rollers seem to rattle about 45 on acceleration so will change those when I finally change the belt.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:39 pm

phils a winger wrote:
lloyd 193, I thought the v light came on depending on mileage, though mine came on at about 19k and not 16k. Bike sounds no different and revs are not increasing yet. NO FUNNY NOISES EITHER. Rollers seem to rattle about 45 on acceleration so will change those when I finally change the belt.

Hi Phil, Reset that V lamp according to the service manual instructions. I recommend you replace that belt at around 25,000 miles. Check your rollers for flat spots or replace them with the sliders talked about so often on this sight. Thanks for your interest.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:31 pm

Replace belt at 25,000 miles=stupid in my book.....yes I am sure in some cases they will go that far...but any money saved could be wasted on roadside breakdowns/inconvenience/getting run over. I ride the miles, carry spare belt....but remember roadside change of SilverWing belt not easy....like Helix for example. I follow Honda recommend intervals....and have not yet walked in over 90,000 SilverWing miles. For many people,these machines are getting old and many have never had belt changed. Each belt change for me rollers/sliders are replaced---I use only stock parts
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:02 pm

phils a winger wrote:
lloyd 193, I thought the v light came on depending on mileage, though mine came on at about 19k and not 16k. Bike sounds no different and revs are not increasing yet. NO FUNNY NOISES EITHER. Rollers seem to rattle about 45 on acceleration so will change those when I finally change the belt.

Phils a winger, Hi Phil, The Silverwing has sets of look up tables contained in its computer, If the engine RPM differs from the Rear axle RPM under certain circumstances the V lamp will light. The area susceptible to this occurring is the 50 - 60 MPH speed range over a several minute time span. This does not mean your belt is going to explode, It simply means that the bike was out of tolerance for a long enough period of time to light the V lamp. Reset the V lamp and go on about your business, Should this happen a couple times more, Then change the belt. In every case except belt failure, Every belt I have replaced, Maybe 60 or 70 over the years have all measured in spec called for in the Service manual. None of these belts were worn past the low tolerance called for in Hondas service manual. Phil I have been doing this for many years and am not paranoid over some of the things some of the posters on this sight display.

Happy Motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:31 pm

phils a winger wrote:
lloyd 193, I thought the v light came on depending on mileage, though mine came on at about 19k and not 16k. Bike sounds no different and revs are not increasing yet. NO FUNNY NOISES EITHER. Rollers seem to rattle about 45 on acceleration so will change those when I finally change the belt.

The "V" light comes on at 16,000 mile intervals. Given that yours didn't come on until 19,000 miles it is possible that someone did the reset procedure at 3,000 miles thus delaying the ON until that later odometer reading.

So if you were to opt to change the belt at Lloyd's 25,000 mile recommendation you would A) Either ignore the "V" light when it came ON at 16k miles and reset it one time later on when you actually did replace the belt. Or B) Reset the light when it first came ON and again when you replace the belt.

No matter what the odometer reading when you reset the light it will come ON again after an additional 16,000 miles, OR if the "engine RPM differs from the rear axle RPM under certain circumstances..." 

Tim
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:11 pm

Digital micrometer is the best way to measure belt width. If you really feel the need. Measure it in several places to check for wear.
UK vs US. When we say 16k we mean miles. UK 16k is kilometers.
SO when does a UK SW turn on the V light. 25 Kilometers????
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:58 am

Uk is in miles NOT kilometers. The rest of Europe uses kilometers.

My thoughts are that the belt might last 25000 miles but it might not. If it doesn't and it snaps, the resultant damage could be quite expensive and inconvenient if you are far from home. Personally I will replace mine at the appropriate time.

JB
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:24 am

What is saved by NOT changing the belt at the recommended intervals?. So you run for another few thousand miles, so what, what have you achieved?. As for measuring the belt, again why? if the belt is due for changing what difference does the wear on the old belt matter, isn't it being thrown away, or kept as emergency back up?.
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phils a winger
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:31 pm

ok, savings, if the belt makes it to 25k then i will only need to replace the belt once before i retire (100 saved), its already done 30 % more than Honda's service schedule says it should. My thoughts are Honda err very much on the side of caution. My journey is 20 mile each way, 5 days a week, I dont use the bike for leisure 200 mile a week is enough for me, first sign of a screaming engine and will park it while i get a belt. When I retire I wont have the 600, will probably have a 250 classic or a 500 enfield, my Gold wing 1100 is already living on borrowed time and soon it will be for sale.
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:29 pm

phils a winger wrote:
ok, savings, if the belt makes it to 25k then i will only need to replace the belt once before i retire (100 saved), its already done 30 % more than Honda's service schedule says it should...

Typical scotsman :lol!:

JB
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:19 am

You keep saying "when I retire". I retired twenty years ago. I ride all year round for pleasure, nothing else, I average ten thousand miles a year, therefore I go through a set of tyres, oil and filter changes yearly and belt changes at fourteen months or so. I only ever had a belt snap on me, on my Burgman 400, only a quarter mile from home, so I pushed it home. Trust me, you do not want to be in that position for the sake of a few quid. Your choice.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:00 am

I've been quite amused by the couple of references to "when I retire" too. I've often heard people say when they retire they're looking forward to spending more time with their grandkids, going on a cruise, playing golf etc. I've never heard anyone say "When I retire I'm going to change my Silver Wing belt".

In my case a couple of months before I retired, Mrs M sent me on a three day residential sourdough breadmaking course just out side Edinburgh, and on it there were a few old boys like me were about to retire or had just retired. I went home after the course with some sourdough, a bag full of different breads and some croissants I'd baked. Now I'm an enthusiastic home bread baker and have a pizza oven too.

Maybe a Google search will reveal there's a similar course held in a shed for blokes nearing retirement whose ambition is to change their maxi belts. All standing round watching the instructor in their brown coats and dirty fingernails. At the end of the course they go home with a few photocopied sheets of paper and the scrap wood variator holding tool they've made on day two.   Smile
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:33 am

phils a winger wrote:
ok, savings, if the belt makes it to 25k then i will only need to replace the belt once before i retire (100 saved), its already done 30 % more than Honda's service schedule says it should.


30% is a fair way into any percieved 'safety margin' I would have thought, so now as you head into winter knowing full well that you have already 'pushed your luck' you will be riding daily thinking about how 'toasty warm' you will be after pushing your bike to it's destination when the belt lets go.
Not saying it will, but, it's totally possible for strands of a snapped belt to get wound around the clutch pads/springs/etc. if that happens it's clutch off. strip, clean & rebuild, possibly costing more than the 'saving' of a simple maintenance task.

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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:39 am

Meldrew wrote:
I've never heard anyone say "When I retire I'm going to change my Silver Wing belt".

That's because they are a VERY reclusive & exclusive sect bud, they've got a special 'handshake' & even wear the knackered drive belt as a sash of honour
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:16 pm

I think The Bern is becoming another soul mate Meldrew!.
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phils a winger
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:42 pm

To all the 'when I retire' comments, if you read my post I dont plan on having the silver wing after I retire, at that point, if I still have it, it will have 50k at least and the insurance / running costs will be such it will not be allowed by the 'management'. For the job it has to do it suits my needs, for pottering about town and wee trips out in good weather its overkill when money will be tight. Plan is a classic rebuild around 250 to 500cc. Have had a belt go on a 250 majesty with no warning so am aware of the issues, that belt by the way had not gone the distance it should have.
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:47 pm

UK in miles NEVER knew. DUHHHHHHH!

US. tried to start the metric system over here back in the 70's. We all know how that ended up.

I guess I'm not very educated.


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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:36 am

Phil didn't you say if it makes it to 25,000mls?  You are now saying it will have 50,000 mls at least when you finish with it in three and a half years, a lot of "pottering about and wee trips out" along with your other bikes. I would think maintaining old"classic" bikes more expensive than running a Silverwing.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:21 am

Phil, have you notice that the bulk of the replies are saying change it at manufacturers spec' even some overseas are in agreement, with the notable exception of one who seems to think Honda have no idea & should extend the period to between 25,000 & 40,000, I've been to both Scotland & Florida, Florida the land of endless flat roads where you pick a speed & stay there for hours, does not really compare with the granduer of Scotland where the roads are anything but flat & the belt is constantly moving in the variators to try & maintan a constant speed.
Aside from milage, most (if not all) reinforced rubber belts have an upper age limit, again more of an issue in Scotland with it's often changing temperatures.
Finally, I'm sure you will agree that a well maintained vehicle has a greater value & is more easily sold, even if you do your own work a folder of dated reciepts for parts used will help with the eventual sale of yours.
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PostSubject: Re: drive belt measure tool   Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:23 pm

Belt light beancounter came on today at 16000 miles. Done the reset.
There was no visible wear on anything when I changed the belt at 15000miles , so it has had a couple of careful owners before me.
Looking forward to the next 16000 trouble free miles.
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