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 Forward seat latch dilemma

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Bairdb
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PostSubject: Forward seat latch dilemma   Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:01 am

I'll keep this short since it's been covered extensively on the Forum quite a long time ago. I took a short ride up the coast to Little Town call Jenner went in for lunch when I came back out I could not get the center seat latch to release and could not, therefore, retrieve my crash helmet which I needed to legally ride. I used the techniques found on the Forum about pushing down on the center of the seat immediately in front of the backrest to no avail. I could not get it to release I finally went up underneath the seat to attempt to release it by manipulating the cables. I did, Ultimately get that to work although, I broke one piece of the cowling around the luggage area and dropped a couple of the pieces of Hardware that hold the cable in place. I rode back home got off the bike and got my books out and attempted to find out how to replace the cables in their proper locations I was unsuccessful in that Endeavour and am now waiting to take the bike in to the dealership to have them restore the front seat latch operation. The point I want to make is, that nowhere in the operating manual nor in the shop manual that I own is there a clear diagram or explanation of the rather complex cable routing and latching system underneath the seat and, nowhere is there any caution about how sensitive the seat is to pressure from beneath. If you happen to have a helmet that's large enough that it presses up under the seat your probably going to have some trouble.
This is the first major disapointement I have experienced with my SilverWing and deeply wish that Honda had done a better job of documentation and that's my main point. Many thanks for listening to the same old story from me that you heard from others.
Blain
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:42 am

I once was visiting a dealer, I had put my helmet under the seat. About to leave I could not unlatch the seat. The dealer lent me a helmet so I could ride home. With help from Dennis G's posts I managed to open the seat. I never did that again I use my topbox. I would agree once the seat is closed it is very difficult to open, and maybe more thought should have gone into the design.
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Smaug
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:22 am

Thanks for the tip. I was close to doing this to myself yesterday.

On my previous Silver Wing, I don't remember there being a middle latch. Why is it even necessary? Isn't the rear latch enough?

I tried putting my size L HJC helmet under the forward part of the seat and gently started to close it, looking in from the side. No good, it hit the helmet. I didn't want to scratch it.

I moved the rain gear and tools to the front and tried the back. There's a foam pad where the seat hits the forehead of the helmet, but it clearly doesn't fit there either, except pressed into place.

I'm using the helmet hook from now on. Wish they put one on the other side too.

Thinking about a top case..., even though I think it kind of ruins the lines of the bike.
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Bairdb
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:36 am

I agree with you Smaug on top boxes. I may ask the dealer to disable the cable to the forward seat latch to prevent a repeat of my problem. Still, wish Honda had a fix for it.
Blain
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:27 pm

Problem is simple---overstuff underseat storage, latch/latches can bind----if any effort required to close, re arrange load.
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Bairdb
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:35 pm


My point is, you buy the bike, you read the operating manual carefully, you purchase a shop repair manual and you read the shop repair manual carefully and then go for a nice long ride and use the storage compartment for what Honda recommend. "up to two helmets," and, you find yourself stranded for several hours at the single end of what was a pleasant ride and now becomes an ordeal.
Previous to that first catastrophic experience you have no reason to research this particular weakness on the Forum. It's a flaw in Honda's usual excellent documentation.
Blain
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:29 am

Two wheelers are not idiot proof.
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Modernman1953
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:08 am

Just remove the metal bracket from under the seat. I took mine off as soon as I heard about this problem.

Also, I use a top box now and my helmet always goes into it. So much easier to use as my top box does not require a key to open or latch closed.

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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:35 am

The whole point of using a top box is so you don't have to cram an expensive helmet under the seat and maybe scratch the paint or potentially jam the seat latch and give yourself grief. You just put your helmet, gloves, or whatever in there, lock up and walk away.

The Silver Wing's is not particularly humongous at 55 litres and it doesn't help that it has those baffles or whatever they are either side that serve no purpose whatsoever. You'll also struggle to get a couple of armoured bike jackets, or jackets and back protectors in there and close the lid when there's already some of your usual junk under there.

I give up on storing riding gear there years ago. If I'm with Mrs M, jackets, fleeces, or whatever go into an Ortlieb bag on the rear seat, covered with a steel mesh Pacsafe luggage net, the steel cable tightened around it, and locked onto the seat at the grab rails on each side.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:42 am

john grinsel wrote:
Two wheelers are not idiot proof.

That's mean spirited to insinuate that the OP is an idiot even though he followed the manufacturer's instructions.

For all the past criticism you've endured on this forum you should be more conscientious regarding your own remarks toward others. 

Tim
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johnd
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:17 am

I could not agree with you more Tim. John G never holds back in his comments and even before finishing my first cup of coffee feel, what is the word I am looking for?
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:42 am

Bairdb wrote:
I agree with you Smaug on top boxes. I may ask the dealer to disable the cable to the forward seat latch to prevent a repeat of my problem. Still, wish Honda had a fix for it.
Blain

Noooooo, don't do that bud, without the cable in place when the latch closes there is no way to open it
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:57 am

I didn't give the 'idiot-proof' remark a second thought; in the circles I move in it's not a term of abuse but a general description of something which is so simple or well-made it's impossible to fall foul of it. It's a 'turn of phrase'.

The Silverwing, like most machines, is not 'idiot-proof' since there are many ways of making it go wrong, e.g. not closing the seat properly so that the light stays on. There is no suggestion that the person who does it is an 'idiot'.

My mobile phone (cell-phone) is 'idiot-proof', so simple I can't mess it up; even when I go to delete a text message, for example, it asks me if I'm really sure and I have to press the 'Yes' or 'No' button to proceed.

It is not insulting!
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Scootypuff Snr
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:01 pm

Well as an idiot I regularly jam my seat having to force it open.
Went for a service today forgetting top box so had to jam lid & armoured trousers under seat.
If you can't laugh at yourself never point fingers at other folk
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm

I have just Googled 'idiot-proof'.

The first entry gives the meaning as: 'incapable of going wrong or being misused.'
The second: 'extremely easy to use.'

The following entries say much the same.

You will see that there is no reference to a person so anyone inferring an insult has totally misunderstood the saying.
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Bairdb
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:09 pm

No insult taken, I wanted to see more conversation about this potential so new riders would have information, mission accomplished and, Bern, thanks for the caution not to remove the forward seat latch cable
Blain.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:54 pm

Fair enough - thanks. Smile
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:23 pm

I have never been able to get my modular helmet under the seat so no problem there. BUT on a trip I had a jacket or balaclava or something jam the forward latch. NOT fun, took a while to finagle it open and realign things. I am much more careful nowadays. I use the helmet hook almost exclusively.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:18 pm

Bairdb wrote:
I'll keep this short since it's been covered extensively on the Forum quite a long time ago. I took a short ride up the coast to Little Town call Jenner went in for lunch when I came back out I could not get the center seat latch to release and could not, therefore, retrieve my crash helmet which I needed to legally ride. I used the techniques found on the Forum about pushing down on the center of the seat immediately in front of the backrest to no avail. I could not get it to release I finally went up underneath the seat to attempt to release it by manipulating the cables. I did, Ultimately get that to work although, I broke one piece of the cowling around the luggage area and dropped a couple of the pieces of Hardware that hold the cable in place. I rode back home got off the bike and got my books out and attempted to find out how to replace the cables in their proper locations I was unsuccessful in that Endeavour and am now waiting to take the bike in to the dealership to have them restore the front seat latch operation. The point I want to make is, that nowhere in the operating manual nor in the shop manual that I own is there a clear diagram or explanation of the rather complex cable routing and latching system underneath the seat and, nowhere is there any caution about how sensitive the seat is to pressure from beneath. If you happen to have a helmet that's large enough that it presses up under the seat your probably going to have some trouble.    
This is the first major disapointement I have experienced with my SilverWing and deeply wish that Honda had done a better job of documentation and that's my main point. Many thanks for listening to the same old story from me that you heard from others.
Blain

Bairdb, It is a simple fix to remove the Loop from the foreword latch so that the locking mechanism cannot grab the loop. Do not tamper with the release cables and be sure that you keep the rear locking mechanism well lubricated. A properly sized 1/4" dowel replaces those guaranteed to fail seat holding cylinders allowing the seat to go much higher when opened.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:42 pm

#1 simple fix=do not overstuff under seat storage.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:37 pm

Today I tried to get the forward latch to engage but couldn't. I held the rear of the seat up while pushing down on the middle section. It would not engage. I don't think my forward latch ever worked. I may just remove the under seat hardware.
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Bairdb
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:09 am

Easyrider,
l remained curious about the latch workings. I repeated your test and, found, as you did, that the front latch would not operate, no mater how much the seat is flexed above the forward latch but, as soon as the rear latch operates so does the forward latch.
My seat is working fine and I've learned more about Hondas mysterious latching proceedure than I really cared to know. Thanks much for the conversation, ideas and suggestions.
Blain
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:25 am

lloyd193 wrote:
Bairdb, It is a simple fix to remove the Loop from the foreword latch so that the locking mechanism cannot grab the loop. Do not tamper with the release cables and be sure that you keep the rear locking mechanism well lubricated. A properly sized 1/4" dowel replaces those guaranteed to fail seat holding cylinders allowing the seat to go much higher when opened.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193.

The forward loop is not removable. While there are two nuts securing the catch loop to the seat the loop is actually mounted 'above' the seat pan --between the pan and the seat padding. IIRC that catch loop is not listed as a replacement part.

Tim
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:39 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
lloyd193 wrote:
Bairdb, It is a simple fix to remove the Loop from the foreword latch so that the locking mechanism cannot grab the loop. Do not tamper with the release cables and be sure that you keep the rear locking mechanism well lubricated. A properly sized 1/4" dowel replaces those guaranteed to fail seat holding cylinders allowing the seat to go much higher when opened.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193.

The forward loop is not removable. While there are two nuts securing the catch loop to the seat the loop is actually mounted 'above' the seat pan --between the pan and the seat padding. IIRC that catch loop is not listed as a replacement part.

Tim

Tim, Once the nuts have been removed, About 15 seconds are required for my cut off wheel to remove the fore mentioned loop. Who would want to ever replace this poorly thought out thing?

Happy motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Forward seat latch dilemma   Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:34 pm

Just leave the nus there and cut the loop off. Be careful not to start anything on fire, seat foam ETC.

Stuff an airbag under there NICE ejection seat.
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