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 Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?

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Smaug
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PostSubject: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Mon 11 Sep 2017, 10:16

They haven't produced any since 2013, it seems.

Now, it's 4 years later, and they have several dual clutch transmission (DCT) motorcycles with 700cc engines.

Do you guys think that (combined with the Forza) is what Honda considers to be the replacement for the Silver Wing, despite the lack of storage and step through?

(If this has been discussed before, forgive me, and provide me a link please. I couldn't think of a good search term.)

Meanwhile, Suzuki is trucking on with their Burgman 650, BMW has their 650 and the Italians and Taiwanese are upping their game too...
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Mon 11 Sep 2017, 11:01

First thing to understand in US market----big scooter boom is DEAD.....they cannot get rid of the old stuff---see leftover 2013 SilverWings on dealer floor or in boxes in warehouse. Stupid to bring stuff to market that will not sell. Few people want to spend $10,000 for scooter. This 700cc stuff is too heavy, expensive and has OPEN CHAIN AND NO CENTERSTAND!

Forza one year deal in US market as it appears. Suzuki has lots of left over scooters, too.

Notice Suzuki is not bringing latest version of Burgman 400 to US. So after 9 new maxi-scooters since 1990----I am not holding my breath for new stuff in US Market
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Mon 11 Sep 2017, 11:14

IMO Honda wont be importing any new maxi-scooters to the North America due to the declining appreciation for maxi-scooters here.

It would be nice to see Honda develop a touring class scooter using all the new technology at hand. But meanwhile we have our old, reliable, easy to maintain Silverwing to enjoy.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Mon 11 Sep 2017, 15:26

John, they may just be waiting to sell off the existing stock before doing another production run.

The dealer I bought my 2012 SW at the other day also had a new 2013 for right around $5k. How much do you suppose it costs Honda to build one? It may make sense to keep building them, since the tooling is paid off.

I'm not sure Tim is right about the appreciation for maxi scooters going down. I think it is just that they got so expensive, it became very hard to justify buying a new one at anything close to the retail prices.

Maybe I'm not giving Honda enough credit, and they know this already? Witness the SH150i. The best-selling scooter in Italy in 2010. They brought it here, asked way too much money for it, and it didn't sell. They couldn't get the huge profit margin they wanted, so they just stopped importing it here. Then, then brought the PCX here instead, which is a decidedly cheaper bike. (in both senses of the word) The PCX seems to be doing fine, and the lesson Honda has learned is that the US market doesn't want to pay more for more quality. Sad

We see it as not wanting to be gouged. ($10k for a Silver Wing? Yikes. It's a nice bike, but not $10k nice)

Same happened with their S2000 sports car. They priced it as if it were a BMW or Mercedes. Many people knew the quality and design was AT LEAST as good as the German machines, but they couldn't convince the majority of roadster-buying public. I bought an MX-5 back then, I couldn't even get a lightly used S2000 for the price of an MX-5. Does it really cost THAT much more to make an S2000, compared to an MX-5? I bet not. Honda is just a bit too proud, these days. In cars, Mazda took advantage. In scooters, the Taiwanese are taking advantage.
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 12 Sep 2017, 12:47

With all the investment currently focused on Electric powered Machines I am sure Honda, as well, will be coming up with some form of electrically powered scooter
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 12 Sep 2017, 13:24

Problem in US market for big scooters/any scooters---is it is dead! Probably because few in N America really use bikes/scooter as regular transportation
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Smaug
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 12 Sep 2017, 16:27

john grinsel wrote:
Problem in US market for big scooters/any scooters---is it is dead! Probably because few in N America really use bikes/scooter as regular transportation

I think you're right John. I bet they'd be more popular if lane sharing was allowed outside CA.

In some cities, they're popular, but only the small-wheeled, short wheelbase type.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 12 Sep 2017, 17:08

Smaug wrote:
They haven't produced any since 2013, it seems.

Now, it's 4 years later, and they have several dual clutch transmission (DCT) motorcycles with 700cc engines.

Do you guys think that (combined with the Forza) is what Honda considers to be the replacement for the Silver Wing, despite the lack of storage and step through?

(If this has been discussed before, forgive me, and provide me a link please. I couldn't think of a good search term.)

Meanwhile, Suzuki is trucking on with their Burgman 650, BMW has their 650 and the Italians and Taiwanese are upping their game too...

Recently an acquaintance brought his BMW 650 to me for servicing, I ask that he leave it a couple days and loaned him one of my 650 Burgman Executives to use while I worked on his BMW.

On returning to pick up his BMW, He ask how I would trade with him. He said that riding the Burgman a couple days, That he hated returning to the BMW. Personally I did not like the BMW while doing the road test, I had forgotten my disappointment with the first one I rode a year ago.

Happy motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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johnd
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 00:32

Doesn't BMW, still stands for "Bring Me Your Wallet" ?
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 03:03

The facelifted SW-T Silver Wing has been around since 2009 and was the large capacity maxi scooter for European Honda importers, and shared the bill with the original 700 Integra when it was later introduced. Looking around now the SW-T Silver Wing has been discontinued in most of these countries, even in scooter mad Italy where they're now only selling the 400 version. The top dog 'scooter' is now the 750 Integra.

Over in Europe any new maxi scooter now has to be Euro 4 compliant and equipped with ABS, so Honda's DCT 750 Integra fits the bill as the engine is far more fuel efficient than the FJS/SW-T Silver Wing.

I've no idea if Honda replace the Silver Wing and if they do it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a maxi scooter, the name had already been used on the GL 500 and GL 650 motorcycle of the Seventies and Eighties.


Looking at the 600cc plus maxi scooter market generally, it's pretty static, the facelifted lardass Burgman is still about, and BMW didn't really corner the market with their first couple of C-Series maxi scooters. The 2016 onwards model are much improved, and I like the look of the newer C650 GT but I've never seen one out on the road.


The SYM Maxsym 600i single cylinder maxi has been on sale over in the UK for the last few years, by all accounts it's a very capable scooter and you can buy a new one in the UK for not much more than what I paid for my Silver Wing in 2010and has a 5 year warranty, yet it's another scooter that you can go one year to the next without seeing one.

Kymco had the MyRoad 700i, it was never imported into the UK and I was reading earlier this year Kymco now realise producing a large capacity scooter like the MyRoad was a big mistake, and they're unlikely to 'ThatRoad'  Rolling Eyes  again.

It's not all doom and gloom though, there's plenty of lighter and up to date 300 and 400 maxi scooters about. Full or partial LED lights as OE, traction control on the new Yamaha XMax 300 and 400. The new SYM Cruisesym 300 complements the well established Joymax. The new Suzuki Burgman 400 is finally on sale, etc, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 03:49

The 2016 onwards model are much improved, and I like the look of the newer C650 GT but I've never seen one out on the road.

Quite by chance, I did last week.
It was svelte and I was impressed.
That the rider was dressed 'BMW' proved no distraction!
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Scootypuff Snr
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 06:06

MikeO wrote:
The 2016 onwards model are much improved, and I like the look of the newer C650 GT but I've never seen one out on the road.

Quite by chance, I did last week.
It was svelte and I was impressed.
That the rider was dressed 'BMW' proved no distraction!

Mike
I test rode & seriously considered the BMW. At a £1000 for a major service I could buy a used Silverwing within the warranty limit
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 07:33

That is rather a lot of pennies, I agree, but it did look very nice in an understated way - much the same as I feel about the Silverwing.

I doubt, too, that I now do enough scooter-miles to reach that particular service.

My Suzuki Jimny had it's MOT last week; it passed with one Advisory.
The near-side hub oil seal is leaking very slightly; the 'man' said just to keep an eye on it.

It is not possible to replace that seal; in order to cure the problem one has to replace the front axle! Crying or Very sad
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 07:44

MikeO wrote:

It is not possible to replace that seal; in order to cure the problem one has to replace the front axle! Crying or Very sad

You can tell him from me that, that's bollocks, Mike, please see ... https://www.bigjimny.com/store/swivel/knuckle-seal-suzuki-jimny.html

I'll be see a mate a week tomorrow, I'll have a chat with him about likely causes & cures bud, think his knowledge will be greater than 'the man' as he is the former owner of the Shropshire Suzuki forum Wink


Last edited by The Bern on Wed 13 Sep 2017, 07:55; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 07:53

Meldrew wrote:
The SYM Maxsym 600i single cylinder maxi has been on sale over in the UK for the last few years, by all accounts it's a very capable scooter and you can buy a new one in the UK for not much more than what I paid for my Silver Wing in 2010and has a 5 year warranty, yet it's another scooter that you can go one year to the next without seeing one.

Then they pretend to be buses Laughing we had two appear the same morning at an 'Ugly Bunch' breakfast meet at The Raven, both owners very happy with their purchases
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 08:34

Hi bud, my local SYM dealer says he's sold one locally and that was a couple of years ago, I'd I've thought I'd have seen it about or parked up somewhere but I haven't. The only SYM's I regularly see are the small capacity scoots favoured by the teenage hoodie, pigeon fanciers, and blokes with allotments.

Even the self styled head of the SYM Mafia in Brighton on the other forum with the first 600 in the country has now gone off the radar. Maybe that ride up to Duxford to the IWM was way too far 'North' for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Wed 13 Sep 2017, 09:16

Quote :
You can tell him from me that, that's bollocks, Mike, please see ... https://www.bigjimny.com/store/swivel/knuckle-seal-suzuki-jimny.html

I'll be see a mate a week tomorrow, I'll have a chat with him about likely causes & cures bud, think his knowledge will be greater than 'the man' as he is the former owner of the Shropshire Suzuki forum Wink

Thank you!
I did wonder; I await further information with eager anticipation. :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Thu 14 Sep 2017, 08:31

It is very sad indeed. The Silver Wing is a fine machine (or we would not all be on here), the MSRP on my 2012 was $9270 USD but now 5+ years later you can get a DCT 700 CTX (with chain, granted) for thousands less. Having ridden both I much prefer the SWing. My point is that Honda missed the price point on the SWing and is now stuck with a bunch of them.

I am guessing that most people do not realize what a good one-up touring machine the SWing is (except J0hn G of course) LOL I love taking 1000-2000 mile trips on mine. In fact I am overdue and need to start planning another one.

Going to put 60 miles on mine today to warm it up.

Moral of the story is to enjoy what you have now and get out and RIDE it!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Thu 14 Sep 2017, 08:52

GHM-PM wrote:
<>I am guessing that most people do not realize what a good one-up touring machine the SWing is (except John G of course) LOL I love taking 1000-2000 mile trips on mine.  In fact I am overdue and need to start planning another one.<>

+1 on that observation, Glenn.

Although not on the same trip, I've ridden from Key West FL to L'anse aux Meadow, Newfoundland, (the northernmost tip), and as far west as Duluth MN on my 2003 S'Wing --and thoroughly enjoyed my rides.

Never ran out of fuel and never had a problem I couldn't resolve with the tools at hand.

Operative word is Ride.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Thu 14 Sep 2017, 13:53

So, the Burgman 400 won't be imported any more.

Burgman 650 is super expensive and complex.

Silver Wings will eventually run out of supply or get old.

Next time around, I may have to settle for an Italian or Taiwanese scooter...
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Thu 14 Sep 2017, 14:12

Haven't been here in awhile. But thought I would share this vid before I take off to ride the dragon for the weekend again this year.

This new honda scoot got spanked by a bmw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIbGDLw6Y8E
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Sat 16 Sep 2017, 23:21

I thought the video was dumb, but it does make a point that the BMW is quicker. When it works. Laughing

Have fun on The Dragon.

Silver Wings look great in blue. I'd be tempted to reupholster the seat in some shade of brown.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Sun 17 Sep 2017, 00:29

I've had two Silver Wings, a Bergman 650 and my current BMW C650GT. I didn't like the B650 all that much but think the Silver Wing is a fine scooter. I do like my GT a bit better and things like heated handle bars and seat (which I used today) along with the TPMS, fuel burn readout, electric windshield, oil level monitor, does lead to my preference. I haven't had any problems with my GT after a couple of recalls on the early models like mine. The main reason I bought it was I wanted another scooter and having sold my last Goldwing (bad knees) I found a used '13 GT with 69 miles in it for $8500. It had the Highline extras on it as well, so it was a big bargain. If I hadn't found that nearly new GT for $3000 off the retail price I'd have purchased another Silver Wing. I've got about 15,000 miles on the GT and am about ready for my third set of tires. (I like the twisties) So far no real problems. But if I find a good deal on a late model Silver Wing my GT might have a garage mate.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Thu 28 Sep 2017, 12:40

I'm on my second SWing. Shouldn't have sold the first. I briefly considered a used BMW C600 Sport, until I learned that its next major service would cost about $2100.

I understand that the scooter market here in the US is limited and I can't fault Honda for not rushing to provide a direct replacement for the SWing. In my mind, the CTX700 DCT motorcycles really don't fit the same niche.

I like very much that the SWing is a relatively simple machine and that I can do most basic maintenance on it myself. Complexity has its virtues, but many drawbacks as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Sun 01 Oct 2017, 08:10

It was precisely the simplicity of the Silver Wing's plain ol' rubberband drive that brought to buy one when looking to "move up" from my '03 Burgman 400--and action which also got me largely flamed and excommunicated in the Burgman community.

A oft heard nickname for the Burgman 650 is "lardy", mostly because it is. That combined with an absurdly complex and problematic after 60k miles drivetrain made me not even consider one (being retired/fixed income and living longer than I thought it would have been used).

I did ride a new Kymco 500 but found it to be a bit sluggish even as compared to my B400, and then found that it is EPA rated for just 43 mpg--heck my "thirstier than when I bought it because of sliders and other mods, and my right wrist" '06 S'Wing delivers a consistent 48 mpg.

My current plan is to ride the '06 'til it cannot be viably repaired, after that I will likely seek out a lowish mileage 2012 or 2013...
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Sun 01 Oct 2017, 09:18

cliffyk wrote:
<>My current plan is to ride the '06 'til it cannot be viably repaired, after that I will likely seek out a lowish mileage 2012 or 2013...

Jeez, Cliff, why wait? I "waited" until I could "afford" to upgrade to a newer Silverwing courtesy of an insurance settlement when my '03 was totalled. While my 2009 doesn't have ABS, the upgrade is so much nicer than my 2003 that, in retrospect, I regret not having sold the '03 and moved up a long time ago.

Given your location in the "Maxi-Scooter capitol of North America" there should be a viable marketplace for you. And, you can transfer your upgrades to a new Silverwing as well.

My 2¢

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Sun 01 Oct 2017, 09:33

At my age and situation I have a deeply ingrained "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy.

My '06 has just 16k miles on it, engine sounds good and runs like a champ, tupperwear and cosmetics are nearly as new (in fact people ask all the time if it is new)--i.e. it ain't broke.

I bought my 1988 Vulcan 88 (in³, 1500 cc) new in '89 after I sold my mint '68 FLH to get cash to buy my house back from my ex. Sold it in 2011 (with 233k miles) after a stroke when they told me I'd never ride again due to my left side being screwed up.

Bought an '03 Burgman 400 (no clutch or shifter) 6 months later...
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Mon 02 Oct 2017, 15:37

I think the Honda NC700X motorcycle with the dual clutch transmission and storage box where the fuel tank would be is the replacement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wScqH7z0pBE

Somehow, it manages better fuel economy than the Silver Wing, despite having a 100cc larger engine.

We would have to go back to chain final drive though.

Passenger accommodations aren't as plush, and the built-in storage is half as big, but there's progress for you. Wink

Ride would probably be better, and it would probably be quicker.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Mon 02 Oct 2017, 16:05

We already have the Honda NC750X on sale in the UK and it's listed as an Adventure bike.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 03 Oct 2017, 00:22

Meldrew wrote:
We already have the Honda NC750X on sale in the UK and it's listed as an Adventure bike.

We do too, ditto. Adventure bikes are a lot more fashionable these days than maxi scooters. Whatever they call it, I don't care. If it does the same thing or better, I'm all over it.

I just got my 2nd 'Wing though, so I'm married to it for a while. Embarking on my first road trip on it tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 03 Oct 2017, 17:50

Smaug, a 2013 wingy for around $5000? You got to be kidding? People look at the wingy and think OH' a scooter. They are usually thinking Chinese junks until you tell them it's 600cc and capable of 110mph and all day comfort and they think you are pulling their leg. If I was in the market for a new wingy I would seriously consider a flight some where (within reason) and get a new unit .
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 03 Oct 2017, 17:59

exavid, 15,000 miles and you are going for your third set of tires.? Something is wrong here . I expect at least 12000-15000 miles per set. If not ; junk tires or poor maintenance. I get at least 15000-20000 miles from my 1200+ cc bikes.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Thu 05 Oct 2017, 15:44

15k on 3 sets of tyres? Sounds about right to me. The rear is normally well knackered at 5k, the front lasts longer but the right side (left for you in the colonies) is usually well gone by 10k.
Congratulations sir, you are riding it as you should.

15k out of a single rear tyre??? How do you do that????
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Sat 07 Oct 2017, 04:28

I purchased my 2013 Swing new and I am on the original tires with 12k miles. I thought that I would have to replace the rear this year, but it seems to have enough rubber to last me into the middle of next year. I think I will be getting oem IRC tires.
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PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 10 Oct 2017, 00:04

I just finished up an 1877 mile road trip over 5 days on my 'wing. My mid-back was sore, but that was about it. I'd have REALLY been hurting without the throttle lock and beadrider.

Ride report with photos is here. (though I'm told you may need to register to see the [really good, if I may say so] photos)
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/scooter-trip-chicago-to-the-smokies.1259584/page-2#post-33395380
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Smaug
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Number of posts : 67
Location : Chicago area
Points : 2044
Registration date : 2012-07-30

PostSubject: Re: Will Honda replace the Silver Wing?   Tue 10 Oct 2017, 00:07

As for tires, I'm over 5k now on the original tires. Plenty of life left on both. I'm 175 lbs. and moderate on the throttle.

I'm a little surprised, as after a couple of stints at 75 - 80 mph, the rear was hot enough that I couldn't keep my hand on it. I was worried at first how hard the rubber seemed, but it warms up and gets sticky.

The tires grip well enough to let me drag something on the left side of the bike. Never dragged anything on the right side yet. Nevertheless, I'm going to see if Michelin makes tires for it; I've always loved their tires. Maybe a nice dual compound one?

I had a big power bike once, a Yamaha FJR. 140 rear wheel horsepower. I was not too heavy on the throttle on that one, but the rear was done by 8,000 miles. I did do a few trips two-up though, with my wife who weighed as much as I did.
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