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 Clutch shoes glazing help please

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Retired
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PostSubject: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Wed 30 Aug 2017, 19:26

SOLD


2004 SW
Clutch shoes glazing on shoes
78 mile on new shoes, springs, rubber bumpers
This is the 3 times I have tried this
Cleaned them with a red scrummie then cleaned again with brake cleaner
I see no color change in the drum
Help help help


Last edited by Retired on Sun 03 Sep 2017, 06:06; edited 1 time in total
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 14:26

What are the symptoms when riding? If none I'd say don't worry and ride more :-)
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Retired
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 14:32

Clutch squeals on take off
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 14:54

Simple fix for noise=Run engine up against brakes for 5 seconds. Worked for me on 1st SilverWing, 2009. Second 2013 does not make noise.
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Retired
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 15:30

What will that do to the clutch pads ?
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 16:12

Who cares? I have had 9 new maxi-scooters since1990===ridden them about 400,000 miles. Troubles=one broken belt Helix, one total blow up of rear clutch at 20,000 miles Burgman 400 Suzuki paid under warranty including new belt.

Sometimes noise/jerks/belt slap just seem to be nature of beast--usually goes away. My interest is riding and getting there....and hoping they do not leave me stranded I buy new and try to trade/get new one at 50,000 miles. Two new SilverWings have performed well for me, except for being overweight. I think performance fine.
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Bash On!
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 16:28

Retired wrote:
What will that do to the clutch pads ?

De-glaze them!
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 16:39

Retired wrote:
2004 SW
Clutch shoes glazing on shoes
78 mile on new shoes, springs, rubber bumpers
This is the 3 times I have tried this
Cleaned them with a red scrummie then cleaned again with brake cleaner
I see no color change in the drum
Help help help

Hi Retired, Use 60 or 80 grit Emery cloth on those clutch shoes and on the inside of the clutch bell. Do not use any chemicals on the shoes. Put that thing back together and enjoy the ride. If your bike sit's round several days a layer of rust will form on that polished bell surface causing a squeal. This can be eliminated with a rear brake application and about one second at about 3000 RPM throttle.
Happy motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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Retired
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 19:36

Well I tried your idea Not good
Did not work for me just made more work for me
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 20:59

Retired wrote:
Well I tried your idea    Not good
Did not work for me just made more work for me

You have soaked your Clutch pads with chemicals, The information I have given you has worked on dozens of Silverwing and other Honda scooters for years. This information is not an idea, It is a proven process that works. Sorry for causing you extra work. Good luck. lloyd 193. swing
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 21:55

Grabbing at straws here:

Maybe belt squeal. How many mikes on your belt? Maybe you installed the belt backward after having it apart so many times recently. The arrows point toward front of the scoot.

How bad were the original clutch shoes?

Are you running a trike kit. If so perhaps the additional weight of the trike kit has shortened belt life.
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Retired
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PostSubject: Clutch pads   Thu 31 Aug 2017, 22:05

The clutch pads or bird 1/3 of the way lengthwise I think I have a bearing going out
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cliffyk
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Fri 01 Sep 2017, 05:35

What is commonly referred to, in this context, as "glazing" really isn't--it is a normal and natural burnishing of the shoe facing's surface that occurs on any friction clutch.

Glazing OTH occurs when the facing material overheats to the point that it "burns", outgasses, and its chemical composition and physical characteristics are altered--often cracks appear in friction face. Glazing intrudes deeply into the facing and generally cannot be removed without rendering the friction shoe/disc unusable.

One can "break" the burnishing if they like, but open up the clutch in 100 miles and you'll find it's back as it is a natural result of proper mating of the shoe and bell--you cannot get rid of it because it's the way the clutch works.

The OP may have damaged the clutch shoes by cleaning them with a solvent--heating them in a toaster oven at 250° F for 30 to 45 minutes might cook out any aromatics left behind (a trick we did years ago with oil-soaked clutch discs, wash in solvent, the "cook" 'em).  

I have never "broken" the burnishing on either my 400 Burgman or the S'Wing, and have had no clutch issues related to the burnishing...
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Fri 01 Sep 2017, 06:59

Thanks for enligterning us on that, Cliff. As usual, you've given us clear and consise innformation. Burnishing vs glazing; now I/we know. Thank you.

scratch Retired, It does seem as if you've done everything their is to do to address the clutch. So now maybe it just might be a bearing noise. I'd start with the big, 40 mm, belt-case bearing. Item #30 in below illustration:

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Scooter/2009/FSC600D+AC/SWINGARM/parts.html

While it is not advisable to ride without the belt case (the driven pulley does need outer support) you might try removing the alloy belt case and briefly riding at the speed where your noise occurs. By actually riding you are placing the driven pulley/clutch under load. If the noise disappears then the the belt case bearing may be the culprit. But if you still hear the noise then driven pulley bearings may be the problem.

The big belt case bearing can be removed by heating (really hot) the area surrounding the bearing then knocking be bearing out. I ended up slamming the belt case face down onto a piece of 4 x 4 and the bearing popped out.

Special tools are needed if the internal bearing in the driven pulley needs to be replaced. It might be more cost effective to just replace that driven pulley section as it comes with both bearings pre installed. See item #9 in below illustration:

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Scooter/2009/FSC600D+AC/DRIVEN+FACE/parts.html

There are also a couple of YouTube videos from SWCI showing methods for removing both the belt case bearing as well as a video showing removing the driven face needle bearing. Unfortunately the videos are in Italian and Stefano Bonacasa stops short of explaining how to remove the roller bearing and circlip from deep down in the driven face. You'll have to search for those videos but they are well worth watching.

Hope this helps

Tim
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Fri 01 Sep 2017, 13:12

Retired wrote:
The clutch pads or bird 1/3 of the way lengthwise I think I have a bearing going out

Retired, Using an appropriate tool or by hand, Sand off all discolored areas of your clutch pads. It does not matter if the surfaces are not flat when you finish, They will wear flat and wear radius to fit the clutch bell. Use course Emery cloth to do this job, If you do not want to do this, You can buy new clutch shoes, Never put any Chemicals on your Clutch shoes, Unless you enjoy punishment.

Happy Motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Fri 01 Sep 2017, 16:11

78 miles is nothing, things take a while to bed in.
Just take bike out for a good ride, say 1 or 2 hundred miles of open road. Feel free to accelerate briskly but don't go too silly, vary the speed, find some hills and (very, very imprtant this bit) wear earplugs.
Chances are everything will be fine after that.
... or utterly f****d, but at least you'll know whats broken :-)
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HORNBLOWER
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Sat 02 Sep 2017, 04:33

Steve, Lol! Earplugs sort so many problems!
It might be worth finding a very steep hill and go up it slowly then ride a mile or so to cool things down then do it again!
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Sat 02 Sep 2017, 13:09

If I ride now without earplugs I hear all sorts of ominous noises... all of which are meant to be there.
A few years back I had a car that always had an annoying rattle. Could I find it? Could I hell. So I ignored it.
When I sold the car I emptied all the storage spaces of the assorted debris we accumulate... and the rattle went!!!
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch shoes glazing help please   Sat 02 Sep 2017, 19:24

Retired wrote:
The clutch pads or bird 1/3 of the way lengthwise I think I have a bearing going out

Retired, The Drive shaft bearing in the belt cover very seldom fails, In 15 years working on Silverwings I have replaced only a few.

If it is determined that yours is bad, Which I doubt. Place your Aluminum belt cover over your shop Drop light, Bearing up, On a concrete surface, In 20 or 30 minutes the bearing will fall out.

Happy Motoring Lloyd 193. swing
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